Curse

Lord Mendes · Jun 08, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

first, because its so horribly overcomplicated and a perfect simple fix has been suggested by hundreds of people and anet completely refuses to do it for some stupid reason and keeps on making it MORE COMPLICATED.

How is this complicated? Do u fail at simple knowledge and logic? The change might be clumsy or inelegant, but complicated? WTF are you on?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

second, as I said in a post between the one you quoted and this one, it can trigger on those weak mobs that go down in a couple hits, while you're still at near-full energy, leaving you out of luck for the stronger stuff in the group.

hahahah!
Probably the worst argument I've ever heard. "Things die so fast that I have no time to spend energy, then I waste all my energy and I am dry in less than 15 seconds..." Priceless argument with stellar logic. IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

for pvp yes this is better. for pve, its better in some instances, but worse in general. and in any case, it shouldn't be this complicated. there is a perfect simple fix that is so obvious. no time constraint, no energy from spirits and minions.

Again with your complicated argument. You are pretty dumb if you cannot comprehend this, and I would be shocked if this game started to get dumbed down because of people that think "It's too complicated". Go play WoW, or tetris (though the latter might be too complicated). Getting rid of game depth for the sake of simplicity and EZ mode is a joke in itself.
Using you logic, anet should change expertise so that skills cost no energy, because it is too complicated the way it is at the moment. I mean numbers, percentages, breakpoints and limitations. TOO COMPLICATED FOR ME!

As for everyone believing your solution is a perfect and simple fix, I think you are beyond saving.
Riverside scrubs all agree, therefore it must be true!
"My entire church group believes that evolution never happened, therefore evolution is a joke!". Right?

Dione Davore · Jun 08, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Much of the replies are only about how unfair it is that the necro gets "free" energy.

- The necro uses attribute points to gain this energy so it's not free.
- The necro has a lot of spells have a rather long cast-time and cost some energy as well.

Please remind that before you post about "free" energy.

Loviatar · Jun 08, 2007, 09:48 PM // 21:48

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

its worse for 2 reasons
first, because its so horribly overcomplicated and a perfect simple fix has been suggested by hundreds of people and anet completely refuses to do it for some stupid reason and keeps on making it MORE COMPLICATED.

here is a newsflash for you.

the perfect simple solution suggested .............

just by co incidence of course..........

will have exactly zero effect on them when they go back to farming as they do not depend on what is being cut.

MSecorsky · Jun 08, 2007, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by countesscorpula

OK, if this is your plan, give necros permanent HCT 100% on all spells... not so cool now, is it?

Plan? What plan? I'm just saying that if mesmers had that great of a deal that SR even in the new form brings... wow. Plan? No. Pointing out how unreasonably silly it is to complain because necros have it great but want more... yes. The amount of energy necros get simply because they invested in their primary attribute (which all classes should do...) is crazy. Hardly any true management required. Maybe they can't spam 25 energy spells like they'd like.

Neither can anyone else.

Lord Mendes · Jun 08, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53

owned by guru.
Sorry for double post.

Miral · Jun 08, 2007, 10:06 PM // 22:06

listen fruitcake, I'm not saying I don't understand it. i understand how it works just fine. Complicated in that it is complex, and doesn't need to be. is that so hard to understand?? no other class has to put up with a bullsh*t timer on their primary attribute. wanna nerf soulreaping? fine. but this timer is the dumbest excuse for a plan I've seen in some time, and simply multiplying the timer as a fix is even dumber. I've yet to see any real reason why the idea of no timer, no energy from spirits and minions wouldn't work. all I see from you is namecalling and attempts to make your epeen bigger. the closest thing I've seen to a reason is because of farming, but lots of classes have farming builds with infinite energy, like 55 monks and stone striker/mantra E/Me farmers.

Yichi · Jun 08, 2007, 10:07 PM // 22:07

im amazed that this argument is even still going abotu the update and the wording of soul reaping. It was recalled and even reported by ANET themselves that this was an error and is false. dont believe me?

www.guildwars.com click on update notes

read for yourself

The Great Al · Jun 08, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

necro's shouldn't have to worry about energy, because THEIR PRIMARY ATTRIBUTE IS ENERGY MANAGEMENT! - monks should have to worry about energy because THEIR PRIMARY ATTRIBUTE IS NOT ENERGY MANAGEMENT!.

it's not rocket science, I invest over half of my attribute points into soul reaping so i don't have to worry about energy... monks get to buff up 2 attrbiutes, pluss their primary because they don't need to max their primary for energy management, i would love to have points in two attrbiutes and not max myy primary - but i need energy.

uh, what? energy storage is the main attribute for elems, but elems still need on average 2 skills in their skillbar devoted to energy management.

Miral · Jun 08, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

im amazed that this argument is even still going abotu the update and the wording of soul reaping. It was recalled and even reported by ANET themselves that this was an error and is false. dont believe me?

www.guildwars.com click on update notes

read for yourself

yeah, but in all likelihood it is the proposed plan for next week's update. one can only hope that by discussing it here, anet will come to their senses and realize how far off they are...

Yichi · Jun 08, 2007, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

yeah, but in all likelihood it is the proposed plan for next week's update. one can only hope that by discussing it here, anet will come to their senses and realize how far off they are...

umm correct me if im wrong, but isnt there currently a 3k post count bitchfest going on about this already that we need a sequel?

Miral · Jun 08, 2007, 10:47 PM // 22:47

coudl be, but this thread is about all the update stuff that was leaked... soul reaping just happens to be at the forefront of the discussion at the moment

jayce · Jun 08, 2007, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

im amazed that this argument is even still going abotu the update and the wording of soul reaping. It was recalled and even reported by ANET themselves that this was an error and is false. dont believe me?

www.guildwars.com click on update notes

read for yourself

arenanet knew what they were doing when they added it to the description in the first place. people leak information all the time, but never in a game update. arenanet wanted to test the waters, and now they know what it feels like. the question is, are they dumb enough or smart enough to throw in the 'leaked' change.

Jayce Of Underworld

------------------------------------------------

Animate Soul Lich
Energy: 25
Cast: 3
Recharge: 0

Elite Skill. Animate a level 1...14 Soul Lich
at your location and you lose all energy. You
suffer -1 energy regeneration for each Soul Lich
you control. Whenever a Soul Lich you control
deals damage, you gain 2 energy.(Soul Reaping)

Soul Reaping
Whenever a creature near you dies, you gain
1...5..6 Energy Regeneration for 3 seconds
(Non-Stackable) and 1...5..6 energy (Stackable).
You gain half that amount/duration for Spirits.

Staff of the Necromancer
Energy +15
Energy Gain: 0.22 per each point in Soul Reaping
Halves skill recharge of spells (Chance 20%)
Energy +5 (while Health is above 50%)
Health +30
Two-Handed

Lord Mendes · Jun 08, 2007, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

im amazed that this argument is even still going abotu the update and the wording of soul reaping. It was recalled and even reported by ANET themselves that this was an error and is false. dont believe me?

Seriously man drop it. We know that, we are just arguing whether the changes that were accidentally implemented as text for the description are valid ones. And let's face it, they are the most likely change that are going to be made.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

listen fruitcake

Angry nerds are funny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

Complicated in that it is complex, and doesn't need to be. is that so hard to understand??

It doesn't (read: pip option), but it works better than anything else Anet has done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

no other class has to put up with a bullsh*t timer on their primary attribute.

No other class had an unlimited energy engine that passively produced more than 10 pips of extra energy regen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

wanna nerf soulreaping? fine. but this timer is the dumbest excuse for a plan I've seen in some time

The timer does the job at limiting soul reaping. It might still be inelegant, but not as inelegant as you think. Hey, don't get me wrong, I prefer the pip option, but this is a way better solution than pre-nerf soul reaping, 5 sec rule, or no energy from spirits or minions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

and simply multiplying the timer as a fix is even dumber.

No it isn't. It makes it closer to the old soul reaping, yet some people are too thick to realize that. People were upset with the 5 second timer because they claimed that they experienced diminishing returns if they killed 2 enemies in less than 5 seconds. This fixes that issue, and when mobs are dropping that fast (more than 3 deaths in less than 15 seconds), do you really need to trigger soul reaping more than 3 times in that 15 sec interval. Everything is dying, and you would be on max energy already. Doing something useful and ending the battle at full energy should never happen, yet it happened loads before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

I've yet to see any real reason why the idea of no timer, no energy from spirits and minions wouldn't work.

It would work in PvP, but it wouldn't in PvE because it wouldn't change anything. If you think soul reaping wasn't broken in PvE, then I think you are beyond saving.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

all I see from you is namecalling and attempts to make your epeen bigger.

I might be a bit too sarcastic, but I am trying to prove a point. Well, guess that's what we fruitcakes do

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

the closest thing I've seen to a reason is because of farming

Have you ever played a necro in PvE? In PvP? Ever? Stop talking out of your ass.

Either way I'm not the one losing sleep over this (joking xD), so QQ more plz. Quote wars is pretty fun.

countesscorpula · Jun 08, 2007, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Neither can anyone else.

And no one else can cast as fast as mesmers, no one else can give that extra punch to heals like a monk, no one can lay down repeated 25 e spells or soak exhaustion like an ele... You can't compare the primary attribute of one profession to the general abilities of another. You can't, and shouldn't. If we could, why bother having primary attributes? Why bother having professions?

Not having constant worries about energy is the necro's strength.

Just like having little to know fear of interupts is the strength of mesmers.

Just like still having a decent E pool while being plastered with exhaution is the Ele's strength.

Different professions have different strengths. If you are so envious of what the necros used to have that you have to try to rip it down, then why don't you try making a necro. Anything else just sounds like spite coming from ele's who are tired of waiting around between mobs to recharge (guess they shouldn't be spamming 25 e spells either), or Mesmers who find themselves doing nothing but wanding after shooting their wad at the start of the battle and having no juice left to continue.

Quit fooling yourselves. Necros were not some uber class casting ZOMG power spells without pause. They are not dropping instant death at break neck speeds (like a Mes spike). Most of them rarely have an energy pool larger than 40 (Mine rarely makes it above 45) - which means two things... 1) Some SR triggers would not be achieved, and 2) Exhaustion will effectively cripple you.

Can you imagine if we could all choose from any attribute? I can see it now...

Fire Magic 15 - To Nuke like no one has nuked before
Fast Casting 10 - to cut my casting time by more than a third on ALL spells (regardless of attribute) ALL the time (not that piddly 20% staff mod)... But if I'm casting at 137% the speed, I'll run out of energy - so I better bring...
Soul Reaping 10 - to pull in the energy I slammed out at break neck speeds.

or

Fire 15 - see above.
SR 10 - to reap the rewards of the fiery death.
ES 10 - to ensure not a drop of SR is wasted.

or

Str 10
Marksmanship 10
Expertise 15

My God! Spamming Barrage at 2e a shot, with a constant 10% armor penetration. A warrior could get off, what... 15 shots before running out of energy? 15 armor penetrating barrages in a row *sigh*

or

Healing Prayers 15 - For the big heals my party needs
Fast Casting 10 - so i never have to choose who gets healed... just heal them both in a fraction of the time.
ES 10 - Now i can add in those big 15e spells and cast them like they were rain drops.
And maybe everyone else in the party can bring mysticism, so when my enchantments end, they get free health and energy too.

But this isn't the case. Primary attributes are powerful... well, most of them. That's why you can never have 2 of them. No primary attribute is fully equaled with any skill... nor should it be.

Worried about necro "unlimited energy regen"? Bring a mesmer with Arcane Languor (maybe add a few more skills that can cause exhaustion - for variety's sake). With a max energy pool of 5, all the SR in the world is going to accomplish nothing.
Or maybe bring an additional monk. No one dies (or dies rarely), no SR triggers - not so "unlimited" now, is it? Example - first crack at the overseer duo in Fort Ranik HM... I ran out of energy awfully fast because they... just... wouldn't.... DIE!!!

SR was not ungodly powerful in most circumstances prior to the nerf (and spirit energy). The reason it wasn't ungodly powerful is because while it has many strengths, there were already limits placed upon those strengths - slower cast times, limited energy pool (hardly anyone I know used the "infamous" 2x +15e/-1 regen weapon set prior to the SR nerf discussion opening several months ago, and most Prophecies armor didn't come in the Radient format until very recently), drawn out battles with low kill count.

The first (and probably main, if not only) reason posted to explain the nerf to SR was the synergy with spirits, and the exploits that resulted from said synergy. The vast majority conceed that this was a problem. No SR from spirits fixes this problem. "what about minions?" No SR from allied minions you didn't make solves that problem - while still allowing the basic MM to function.

I am just so sick and tired of this.

WildmouseX · Jun 08, 2007, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Al

uh, what? energy storage is the main attribute for elems, but elems still need on average 2 skills in their skillbar devoted to energy management.

energy storage is just extra energy, not energy replacement - energy management is a replacement of energy... which is what soul reaping does. it's the only thing soul reaping does.

(check out mouse's zodiac clearence sale http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...06#post2892406)

Miral · Jun 08, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

No other class had an unlimited energy engine that passively produced more than 10 pips of extra energy regen.

no? what about 55 monks? one permanent enchantment, get hit a few times, and infinite energy. nothing even needs to die for it to happen. thats where the balance comes in with soul reaping, it gives absolutely no benefit until you kill something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

Have you ever played a necro in PvE? In PvP? Ever?

yes, I have. I play necro quite a bit. It was one of my favorite classes, but this timer nonsense makes it less of a fun experience and more of a mechanical min/max scenario of working around a timer. when did nomadic souls get watches?
now the question is, have you? sounds more like you're a bitter member of another class that just wants to hurt necromancers so you'll be more powerful by comparison...

oh, and before you ask, yes I've played other classes too. I've played em all quite a bit. rather than grinding for titles, I start a new character and learn all the classes.

countesscorpula · Jun 08, 2007, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Al

uh, what? energy storage is the main attribute for elems, but elems still need on average 2 skills in their skillbar devoted to energy management.

so some eles are using 3 or more skills for E-Management? What the hell kind of skill bar is using MORE than two skills for e-management? If you bring only one skill for e-management, does that mean that "you can no longer spam 25e spells on recharge QQ" - like people have been saying to those opposed to the SR nerf?

countesscorpula · Jun 08, 2007, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

It would work in PvP, but it wouldn't in PvE because it wouldn't change anything. If you think soul reaping wasn't broken in PvE, then I think you are beyond saving.

If you think (and anyone else for that matter) that Pre Nerf Soul Reaping was so game breakingly powerful in PvE, where are your posts calling for the nerf bat before the nerf came into being?

Miral · Jun 08, 2007, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by countesscorpula

And no one else can cast as fast as mesmers, no one else can give that extra punch to heals like a monk, no one can lay down repeated 25 e spells or soak exhaustion like an ele... You can't compare the primary attribute of one profession to the general abilities of another. You can't, and shouldn't. If we could, why bother having primary attributes? Why bother having professions?

Not having constant worries about energy is the necro's strength.

Just like having little to know fear of interupts is the strength of mesmers.

Just like still having a decent E pool while being plastered with exhaution is the Ele's strength.

Different professions have different strengths. If you are so envious of what the necros used to have that you have to try to rip it down, then why don't you try making a necro. Anything else just sounds like spite coming from ele's who are tired of waiting around between mobs to recharge (guess they shouldn't be spamming 25 e spells either), or Mesmers who find themselves doing nothing but wanding after shooting their wad at the start of the battle and having no juice left to continue.

Quit fooling yourselves. Necros were not some uber class casting ZOMG power spells without pause. They are not dropping instant death at break neck speeds (like a Mes spike). Most of them rarely have an energy pool larger than 40 (Mine rarely makes it above 45) - which means two things... 1) Some SR triggers would not be achieved, and 2) Exhaustion will effectively cripple you.

Can you imagine if we could all choose from any attribute? I can see it now...

Fire Magic 15 - To Nuke like no one has nuked before
Fast Casting 10 - to cut my casting time by more than a third on ALL spells (regardless of attribute) ALL the time (not that piddly 20% staff mod)... But if I'm casting at 137% the speed, I'll run out of energy - so I better bring...
Soul Reaping 10 - to pull in the energy I slammed out at break neck speeds.

or

Fire 15 - see above.
SR 10 - to reap the rewards of the fiery death.
ES 10 - to ensure not a drop of SR is wasted.

or

Str 10
Marksmanship 10
Expertise 15

My God! Spamming Barrage at 2e a shot, with a constant 10% armor penetration. A warrior could get off, what... 15 shots before running out of energy? 15 armor penetrating barrages in a row *sigh*

or

Healing Prayers 15 - For the big heals my party needs
Fast Casting 10 - so i never have to choose who gets healed... just heal them both in a fraction of the time.
ES 10 - Now i can add in those big 15e spells and cast them like they were rain drops.
And maybe everyone else in the party can bring mysticism, so when my enchantments end, they get free health and energy too.

But this isn't the case. Primary attributes are powerful... well, most of them. That's why you can never have 2 of them. No primary attribute is fully equaled with any skill... nor should it be.

Worried about necro "unlimited energy regen"? Bring a mesmer with Arcane Languor (maybe add a few more skills that can cause exhaustion - for variety's sake). With a max energy pool of 5, all the SR in the world is going to accomplish nothing.
Or maybe bring an additional monk. No one dies (or dies rarely), no SR triggers - not so "unlimited" now, is it? Example - first crack at the overseer duo in Fort Ranik HM... I ran out of energy awfully fast because they... just... wouldn't.... DIE!!!

SR was not ungodly powerful in most circumstances prior to the nerf (and spirit energy). The reason it wasn't ungodly powerful is because while it has many strengths, there were already limits placed upon those strengths - slower cast times, limited energy pool (hardly anyone I know used the "infamous" 2x +15e/-1 regen weapon set prior to the SR nerf discussion opening several months ago, and most Prophecies armor didn't come in the Radient format until very recently), drawn out battles with low kill count.

The first (and probably main, if not only) reason posted to explain the nerf to SR was the synergy with spirits, and the exploits that resulted from said synergy. The vast majority conceed that this was a problem. No SR from spirits fixes this problem. "what about minions?" No SR from allied minions you didn't make solves that problem - while still allowing the basic MM to function.

I am just so sick and tired of this.

yeah this says it all. pretty much almost all the things I've been saying on this subject over the past few months, all in one post. agree 100%.

The Great Al · Jun 08, 2007, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by countesscorpula

so some eles are using 3 or more skills for E-Management? What the hell kind of skill bar is using MORE than two skills for e-management? If you bring only one skill for e-management, does that mean that "you can no longer spam 25e spells on recharge QQ" - like people have been saying to those opposed to the SR nerf?

Hmm...how about just about every Ele to play in the deep (and my standard build elsewhere as well) which includes Fire Attunement, GoLE, and Glowing Gaze? (don't respond with, "but glowing gaze does damage!!")